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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  03:45:08  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We are going to move to a new host. I do not have a local copy of the database as I do not have a local copy of SQL Server. I am hoping that the current host will put a copy up that can be FTP'd to the new host. When with the new host (probably Alentus) they say that the database will be on a separate server that does not have FTP access enabled.

Is it safe/wise to have a copy of all files on my local PC but NOT the database?

devshb
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1898 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  03:55:48  Show Profile  Visit devshb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the old host should allow you to create a backup file of the sqlserver database, and then you should be able to physically transfer that from the old host to the new host and then do a restore of it on the new host. (and while doing that, you'll have a copy of the backup file on your pc)

it's true that the sqlserver database would almost always be on a physically different server to the normal site files.

Make sure both host accounts are active/paid until the full transfer process has all worked.

Simon Barnaby
Developer
[email protected]
www.BigYellowZone.com
Web Design, Online Marketing and VPASP addons
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  04:01:19  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Simon, but how do I create a backup file without SQL on my system?
Also, the backup I'll have will be out of date very quickly as we are constantly adding to the site. This is what my question was angled at as previously with an Access database I backed up weekly or more often when I'd made lots of cahnges.
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devshb
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1898 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  04:10:31  Show Profile  Visit devshb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the backup function should be available on any host that supports sqlserver, either as an option in the host's control panel area, or via sqlserver itself by issuing a backup command (I don't know the syntax for that though). Or the host might have some other kind of option like "export" etc.

There are lots of ways of transferring sqlserver databases; usually the new host will be the most helpful person on that front, and often they'd do it for you.

sqlserver lets you create backups at the drop of a hat (although some hosts might charge each time, which isn't very nice but does sometimes happen)

My advice would be to ask the new host if they can do the transfer for you (and ask them if they'd be ok to do it more than once; once for an initial test load, and once for a final/live release), and also ask them about the backup aspect (also ask about where you can physically download the backup file from)

Whatever happens, you shouldn't need to have a personal sqlserver license for your pc or to install sqlserver on your pc; it should all be possible to do via the host's control panel, the host's sql web interface, and/or ms query-analyser (free download which lets you get into the database from your pc)

Simon Barnaby
Developer
[email protected]
www.BigYellowZone.com
Web Design, Online Marketing and VPASP addons
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  04:17:37  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Our current host is Elosoft/Next Webhosting and they do not offer any sort of control panel.

This is what Alentus said
"If your current host can put a ZIP copy backup of your site, and a db backup that is accesible via ftp (NOT Enterprise Manager), we can move all content for you at no charge. If these backups are not available site content moves are your responsibility."

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devshb
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1898 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  04:21:48  Show Profile  Visit devshb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the current host should allow you physical access to your backup files, and let you create backups; if they don't then they've got no business being a host. you'd need to raise that question with them, ie "how can I create backups, and where can I find the backup files?"

Simon Barnaby
Developer
[email protected]
www.BigYellowZone.com
Web Design, Online Marketing and VPASP addons
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  04:31:37  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, will do. I'll post their reply (when..... I get it).
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elammers
VP-ASP Super User

USA
256 Posts

Posted - December 12 2006 :  07:21:07  Show Profile  Visit elammers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not all the tables should be changing regularly I would think. For example, the languages table probably hasn't changed in weeks or months. So you could run some quick and dirty tests with that one table.

Also, here are some other thoughts to go along with the backups idea.

One of our hosts allows you to connect via SQL Enterprise Mgr so we were able to easily transfer (export/import) from one host to another via that tool. Super easy and fast if you can get the connectivity from outside.

Another host does not allow this connection and only gives you online tools. However, one of their tools is something called "create INSERT scripts". When I needed to transfer from one account on this system to another, I found this useful. On the original I ran the "create INSERT scripts" and copied the output to a text file locally. Then opened up the other account and went to the queury analyzer and ran the INSERT script after I had ran VP-ASP's tool to create the database tables.

Regards,

Eric in Maine
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 13 2006 :  04:45:03  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is my host's reply to my questions.
1. How much space are we currently using on the site & database?
2. How can I create database backups, and where can I find the backup files?

You have lots of room left.
With Enterprize Manager you can connect and export the data to you.
We do our own back ups but no customer access for those files.


I don't have enterprise manager but I could get an evaluation copy from Microsoft just for this move but is this a safe option for an inexperienced user?

(Suffice to say I'm not happy with their reply re the space used. I think they have guessed we're planning a move.)

Edited by - Sharon on December 13 2006 04:48:14
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devshb
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1898 Posts

Posted - December 13 2006 :  05:11:26  Show Profile  Visit devshb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
not much fun; enterprise manager takes forever to load/open and is an absolutely massive executable to download (something like 300meg from what I remember)
microsoft do have other/simpler/smaller tools; maybe "Query Analyzer" will let you do it. but, from what I can remember there are some things that you can only do with enterprise manager and nothing else (eg changing columns from non-autos to autos and vice-versa)

Simon Barnaby
Developer
[email protected]
www.BigYellowZone.com
Web Design, Online Marketing and VPASP addons
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elammers
VP-ASP Super User

USA
256 Posts

Posted - December 13 2006 :  08:35:41  Show Profile  Visit elammers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another option to think about is this - outsource the task:

You sound a little unsure about this whole move and your business is your business which makes the money for you to live. So you may want to consider bringing in outside help who are familiar with this. The small cost could easily outweigh any downtime if you accidentally screw it up doing it yourself. Now I'm not saying you will, but if you have doubt, this an another option you should consider.

Regards,

Eric in Maine
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 13 2006 :  08:38:54  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You are echoing my thoughts exactly elammers. BYZ migrated us to sql last year so I may approach them again, although Simon might be scared of me now.
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devshb
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1898 Posts

Posted - December 13 2006 :  11:13:26  Show Profile  Visit devshb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Takes a lot to scare me! we'd be happy to look at it if you want, but you should also consider other developers too because it's a very generic thing to do, so any developer who knows sqlserver and has enterprise manager should be able to do it.

Simon Barnaby
Developer
[email protected]
www.BigYellowZone.com
Web Design, Online Marketing and VPASP addons
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 14 2006 :  05:39:33  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'll be on your site asking for a price very soon Simon. I would ask other developers too but as I haven't worked with any except BYZ how do I know who to trust? If I put a request up on a forum would I be inviting dodgy characters to have fun with our data?

Edited by - Sharon on December 14 2006 05:47:56
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support
Administrator

4266 Posts

Posted - December 14 2006 :  05:54:04  Show Profile  Visit support's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Sharon,

I would probably stick with someone you know. We have a list of approved developers as well if you want to contact us off list as an alternative

BYZ are pretty prolific however in working with VP-ASP customers so you are certainly ok going down that path.

Thanks
Cam

VP-ASP Suport
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Sharon
VP-ASP Super User

353 Posts

Posted - December 14 2006 :  05:58:49  Show Profile  Visit Sharon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Cam, I appreciate your advice.
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