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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  09:42:20  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, this is a continuation of another forum.

I think we all need a good place to talk about how to ligitimatly market a VP-ASP Website.

Here is a really nice site that explains all about how MSN indexes yur site and the things you can do to imporve your ranking and also what you can do for them to not include you or to give you a low result.

http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx

and here is an earlier post where I talked about how to make the metatags like title, descrition and keywords change on each page so you can get more pages listed in the search engines.
ok, First let me say I have only programed in asp for a week or so, but below is a little code I wrote that is very important if you want to get into the search engines. This code takes the category name and description and turns them into meta tags for your page where the title will become the catalog name and the meta description is the category descriptions... I also modified the shopdisplay products to do the same as well as changed tmp_product.htm to do the same using the [cdescription] tags and such.

the working version is at http://66.121.213.146/products/

(I use 4.5 not sure about 5 and 5.5
Here is what I did on shopdisplaycategories.asp

on your shoppage_header delete the whole the <head> to </head> section at the top. This mod will replace that section and add a different title for each category and will add descriptions to the metatags. Try it and see...

Find

Sub ShopCategories
highercategoryid=request("id")
If not isnumeric(highercategoryid) then highercategoryid=""

Replace entire from there to the end of the sub with

Sub ShopCategories
highercategoryid=request("id")

If not isnumeric(highercategoryid) then highercategoryid=""

dim rs
dim title
dim description
if highercategoryid="" then
highercategoryid=0
end if
if highercategoryid <> "0" then
SQL="Select * from categories "
sql = Sql & " where categoryid=" & highercategoryid
OpenRecordSet dbc, rs, sql
title = rs("catdescription")
description = rs("catmemo")
if Title = "" then
Title = "Water Purification Products - Softeners - Carbon - Reverse Osmosis"
end if
%>
<head>
<title><% response.write title %> </title>
<!<link rel="stylesheet" href="shop.css" type="text/css">
<meta NAME="description" content=" <% Response.write description %>
<meta NAME="keywords" content=" <% Response.write title %>"
</head>
<%



CloseRecordSet rs
end if

if highercategoryid="" then
highercategoryid=0
end if
ShopPageHeader ' Page header for shop
CategoryHeader ' category header on this page
Showcategories ' format categories on this page
ShopPageTrailer ' shop page trailer
end sub






Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 10:38:56

apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  09:45:27  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here is an interesting Link I found... I dont know who this guy is, but he has a lot of good info here.

http://www.bruceclay.com/



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 10:39:57
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  09:48:08  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very important... Make sure you have this in your header

<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,follow">

That way the robots will do their thing.

This is an alternative to robots.txt

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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  11:03:51  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage  Reply with Quote


That is good information Aspwater. It does show how much of a beginner in SEO you are for recommending the index,follow which is set by default in all of the main search engines. However, we all started there. I do wish you good luck in your SEO attempts. You are on the right track. The same track that other SEO's, like myself, followed years ago.

Bruce Clay has great tools for the beginner however there are other tools available which are much better. If you would like I can offer you some links.



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  11:17:40  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What are you talking about?

I offer the info because it is free and usefull. Yes, you can buy all kinds of stuff that will do more. If you are the "expert" why are your ranking so low on the search engines? Mine are mostly top 5.

Anything you do helps. At least some of us arn't posting info for our own personal gan like you are. If you have something to contribute that you arn't being compensated for for a change, then post it. You method will get you banned and it isnt getting you much sales.

Forums are for discussing it. You know, that works and what doesnt and WHY. Lets try to be helpfull to each other here.

Anytime someone challenges you, you call them basically an idiot and that you are the only one who knows anything. Lets grow up a little ok? I have had websites since BEFORE the internet. Stop telling people they dont know what they are talking about. Obviosly we do know. For those who don't, they ARE beginners and thus any info could help them. If this is too below your genius level, then please stick to your own forum, and let the people who dont know, learn from other.



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 11:30:59
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:08:21  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Changing extended product pages for search engines.

You can add this to the top of your tmp_products.htm as an easy way to change the page titles and meta tags for each product. Here is how I did it anyway. Replace the <head> to </head> section with ...

Of course, change the text parts to suit your own site.

<head>
<title>Product Data Sheet - [cname] - Model [ccode]</title>
<meta NAME="description" content="[ccode] [cname] - [extendeddesc]"
<meta name="keywords" content="[cname], laboratory, water purification, [ccode]"
<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,follow">
</head>

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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:25:52  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage  Reply with Quote


Acutally, I never called you an idiot at all. Now if that is what you think, I cannot help that. I have only complimented you on your information that you are passing out to people and offered to extend the links that I have.

You mentioned in your other post that the website; www.labwater.com; which was not in your profile when you first wrote in on my post however is there now.... is one of your old websites.

Are you saying that you have other websites that do better?
Don't you think that people should know who is giving them the information?
And shouldn't they know whether or not you can back up your claims so they are not wasting their time listening to opinions?
I am sure you can however you offer no backing for your information.
Let people know what you have accomplished so you can get some credibility for offering them advice. Otherwise, all you are offering them is an opinion of what you think works but do not know.

What websites do you have for what keyword phrases for in Google, Yahoo, or MSN?



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:34:23  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As i posted in your forum....

Try this one... http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?cp=1252&FORM=MSN6B&q=%22water%20softeners%22

How about another one...

Here is a main comptetitor of ours... 112,000 pages, we are number 3,4,6,8 and a whole lot of others of the 112,000 pages are ours.

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=millipore&FORM=QBRE

but the most important part... We get sales... We get highly targeted hits and I must say, we do significantly more then 30K a month... and WE DONT USE EXCHANGE LINKS!

and geez wayne, I dont seem to find you listed at all... at least not on the first two pages http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=gift+baskets&FORM=QBRE2

ok..ok, one more "water purification" is a ver broad topic, 3,370,000 pages... and guess what Wayne... #10 and on the first page... go figure.... I guess I didnt know what I was doing with our old pages either.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-36%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=water+purification



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 12:48:59
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  14:40:20  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, here is yet another good site with all kinds of free tools to help you market your site.

http://www.searchbliss.com/webmaster_resources.htm

This is the best section I found and it adresses some of I had been talking about before I was so rudely inturrpted haha.

http://www.searchbliss.com/seo-tools/search-engine-optimization.htm

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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  14:47:22  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage  Reply with Quote


Chill,
I am not knocking you. You sound like you are taking things personally. Here, I am simply being nice and letting you know... let people know what you have done and that will give you more credibility for them to believe you. Otherwise you are just wasting your time and theirs.

I think it is great that you want to help people get their search engine rankings up.

millipore- 264 searches per day
This is a good keyword phrase to find for only 112,000 competition.
This should be rather easy to land. You are very excellent and finding those keyword phrases that low competition and decent searches per day
As everyone knows, every relevant searched for keyword phrase bring more traffic. Generally, more traffic means more sales (There is a lot more that goes into however that is general).

If you can find decently searched for keyword phrases with low competition, you are in luck. As I mentioned before. That is great. For those types of keyword phrases, you don't need any SEO experience to land those.

The keyword phrase has only 1 main competition in Google
www.millipore.com with around 93,400 total links pointing to that website. Acheiving number 2 spot should not be a problem. That keyword phrase is a good find.

The second keyword phrase you have water purification again is a good keyword phrase. However the competition is not that hard. Again, you are very excellent and finding those keyword phrases that have little or no real competition... That is every SEO's dream. To have a client that wants to market something that has little or no competition on the Internet. As I am sure you know, the harder the keyword phrase the harder it is to get rankings. The better your SEO skills had better be.

Which website are you talking about www.apswater.com?
I presume.

You don't have to take things personally. I am not attacking you. I am letting you know that if you don't let people know what you have done or what results have been produced; what reason do they have to believe you?

Thus far, we have proved those those methods absolutely work if your website has low to no competition however once you start competing against other SEO's that know what they are doing, those methods, still count, but not as much. This also matters depending on which search engine you are targeting. Some of those main SE's pay no attention to your meta keyword tag anymore however you will find tons of documentation telling you to use it... such as here for example.

I think you misunderstand me, I am here telling you that I think that it is a great thing you are doing helping other people get their website promoted in the search engines. I am not attacking you in any way shape or form. Unlike what your attitude is towards me.

I wish you luck in your endeavors.



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 14:53:38
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  15:10:56  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes Wayne, when you tell people they dont know what they are talking about (as you have done to anyone who doesnt agree with you) people take it personally. People skill Wayne.. People skills...

so back to it... no, apswater.com is an old website. all we did with that was to point the product links to the vp-asp cart. We are still in beta testing which is why you dont see the .com names pointed over to the new carts. Once we work our all the bugs we will use VP-asp on all of our websites. For those we use Dansie cart which I hate, but used it for years.

I still contend that placing advertising on your site to other websites simply encorages you short attention span clients to wander off instead of focusing on what you are trying to offer them. If you feel different, great... I know you dont like the robot metatag because the main search engines dont use it... BUT there are many other search engines (I have no idea who uses them) who do use the robots tag... the rest mostly use the robot.txt which we also have in each directory. It looks to me like we are both getting similar results.. except mine are on msn and your are on google. We just put in to be spidered last week so it will take a while for all of our pages to hit google. I have stopped my google advertising for now becasue we are getting more then enough free directed hits for now.

When I hook up all the .com name we have, we will have about 100 websites all being fed into the spiders. What we do is share the database and individually market the sites. We have compteitions, like i'll give a few .com's to the sales people and let them find all the free marketing they can and then we give a bonus for the top trafic site. Of course they are all selling the same products but they all show up seperatly in the search engines.. We will have about 2000 pages per site once all the products are put up and with the title being the keywords, thats a awful lot of good tags for the spiders with very little programing.

so truce! You like it your way.. I like it mine.. I am sure the rest will like a little of both..... fair enough?

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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  15:37:14  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage  Reply with Quote


:) Fair enough

I still offer, if you want some links here that are helpful in SEO, I have no problem putting them in for people to utilize however I was not going to do that without your permission since you are the one that started the post.



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  15:44:20  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thats fine... it is a PUBLIC forum... just be straight forth about the downsides too...

What I would be worried about is the easiest way for google to turn off the link farms is to simply not follow links to other domains.
Then you would be dead in the water. If the problem keeps getting worse, and we can be sure that the one thing the internet gives us is excess, google and the others will have to do something. More and More increasingly I am getting frustrated with searching for something and getting a link farm instead of a site... and then you find the links on the farm are links to other farms... pretty soon you wont be able to find anything on a website except link farms of link farms.

but please do post any meaningfull info.. I think we have covered your link exchange stuff enough... lets keep that on your forum.. here I am looking at ways to market a site and it doesnt just have to be search engines and links....



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 15:45:43
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shopcomputer
VP-ASP New User

USA
57 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  19:00:57  Show Profile  Visit shopcomputer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://www.bruceclay.com is not a beginner SEO site, it is quite advanced. Our SEO specilist from the top 10 in the US http://www.seoimage.com recommends their tools.

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Justin
VP-ASP New User

87 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  23:27:55  Show Profile  Visit Justin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think this is a good topic. Here's my short list - feel free to expand on these items yourself.

1) Don't try and trick the search engines. As they say in the Google Guidelines
(http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html):

quote:
A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"


2) Related to 1), don't build a business that relies on the serch engines. It makes you very vulnerable, and it makes the search engines more powerful. If you do make an Internet-only business, be prepared to react quickly to changes in algorithms, law, etc.

3) Once you've done all the "basics" (meta tags, title text, etc) the age-old "content is king" applies. This is where I'd like like to see some more discussion, personally. Product pages which contain information about the products is an obvious one, but besides that, what options are available? Here are my suggestions:

Q&A section. People can ask questions in a public part of your page, and you will reply them. There are many reasons *not* to do this (eg "it's too much extra work!" and "what about if people post bad things about my site?"). However, there are many positives (sorry - would love to go into it here but running short of time).

Review this Product. Built into VPASP, not as good as the above, but still provides content.

Writing Articles. Eg For my health website, a long time ago I made a page about osteoporosis information. It was about two screens long, with just the basics, yet easy to read. I had linked to the sources of information, crediting the authors, and provided a couple of other links of related sites (eg Healthy Bones Week in August). I forgot about it. One month, while reviewing my weblogs, I noticed it had become a very popular page. I ran a search through Google I found out that a big health organisation here in Australia had placed a link to me on their website, as a recommended basic overview of osteoporosis! I know it sounds like hard work, but ideally I'd be spitting out 5 pages of 'original" content a week, each 300-500 words.

More later.

Justin.

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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 20 2005 :  01:13:27  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good post Justin...

yes, I agree with content. Last week I put up a message board
http://www.homewaterdepot.com/bbs/category-view.asp

I made most of the forums read only so I could post tech info and attach the links to the products I want to market. For example look at

http://www.homewaterdepot.com/bbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=31&posts=1

In this case I give the client something they want, in a easy to find format and it allows me to suggest that they purchase expendables or new hardware.

I think I paid about 39.00 or so for it.... it also happens to have a great built in scheduling calender we use with our service group and or office stuff.

The search engines love the old cgi pubs, lets hope this access based system generates the same traffic.



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