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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 18 2005 :  17:37:07  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


Your welcome Sek,

Good luck in your endeavors. If you have any questions either ask in the DP forums or ask me here.




Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net
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bmw000
VP-ASP New User

137 Posts

Posted - February 18 2005 :  22:28:22  Show Profile  Visit bmw000's Homepage
Wayne,

What does the conmbo box (numbers 1 through 15) do? What's it's purpose? This is located near the delete disable/enable links.

Here is my first ad:

Anchor Text: BMW Solutions Online Gift Shop
Description: Apparel,Arts & Crafts,Home & Garden,Electronics,Foods,Gift Ideas,Jewelry,Sports & Fitness,Tools

It now has a weight of 1,540.

I just added a new ad. I think I am going to try to be more product specific so here is the new ad I just made.

Anchor Text: BMW Solutions Sports Apparel
Description: Sports apparel including ghillie and camo wear

I just made this new ad so I am waiting for approval.


Brian Weber
BMW Solutions, LLC
http://www.bmwsolutions.com
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  09:28:48  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
What you are joining is a big link list. You see these when you try and search for something and instead get pages of advertising full of links. Google and MSN are well aware of this tactic to artifically get over listed in the search engines... what I think will eventually happen is that your link will get blocked as cheaters or the search engines will become almost worthless.

I sent a link earlier explaining how to get excluded from search engines.

These link pages are so pervasive on the search engines that they make it hard to find the real info you are looking for. You might see a short term trafic pick up but in the end you have to decide if it is worth getting banned and having to start all over. The best thing you can do to get listed is to use a site submission service and make sure you meta titles, descriptions and keywords are all filled in and are different on each page.

I think I will start a website marketing pub so we can discuss things you can do without raining on ProductivePC's parade. I knew he was so agressive about this for a reason but I am sure we can all you more ligitimate traffic with incerased sales.

as a side Productivepc said his sales doubled but his link backs increased thousands of times. That should tell you something about the quality of the traffic.

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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  11:49:00  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


quote:

What does the conmbo box (numbers 1 through 15) do? What's it's purpose? This is located near the delete disable/enable links.

Here is my first ad:

Anchor Text: BMW Solutions Online Gift Shop
Description: Apparel,Arts & Crafts,Home & Garden,Electronics,Foods,Gift Ideas,Jewelry,Sports & Fitness,Tools

It now has a weight of 1,540.

I just added a new ad. I think I am going to try to be more product specific so here is the new ad I just made.

Anchor Text: BMW Solutions Sports Apparel
Description: Sports apparel including ghillie and camo wear

I just made this new ad so I am waiting for approval




The 1-15 is how much importacnce you want on that text ad shown.
The higher the number the more times that specific text ad will be shown across the network on other peoples websites.


The one thing you have to understand is that search engines for very literal. If you want to show up in the search engines for exactly:
BMW Solutions Online Gift Shop

Then that is what you want to put into your anchor text however if the keyword phrase that you can going after is BMW Solutions then that is what you should put in your anchor text. That is what is going to tell the search engines what your website is about.

With a weight of 1,540. Concentrate on 1 secondary keyword phrase. When you sign people up you will get more weight. When your weight is up to around 9K then go for a primary, very competitive keyword phrase. You can also get more keyword weight by adding more content to your pages. A forum or a blog is good for this.

Here is what I suggest:
Utilize DP's tools
http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/suggestion/

Find a keyword phrase that word tracker reports beack as being around 300 searches per day that is related to your website.

Use that exact keyword phrase in your 1 ad. Put all of your weight on that ad. When you work up to around 9K move up and have 2 keyword phrases, 1 competitive, highly searched for, the second, a semi-competitive, semi-searched for secondary keyword phrase.

If you want an excellent estimate of how much traffic you will receive from 1 search engine when you make it to the top of that keyword phrase take the word tracker result and divide by 60. There is a long algorithm that gets you that information however, bottom line, divide by 60 will save you a lot of time and give you a good estimate for 99% of the keyword phrase results returned by word tracker. Do not use the overinflated overture results.

=====================================================================

ASPWater,
Wow, are you crying because there are people that are not listening to SEO Guestimates on what you think someone should and should not do with their websites?

That sure sounds like it to me.

Let's take a look at your website for a second.
1. www.labwater.com
You don't even come up number 1 for lab water.
Your website is not optimized for different resolutions.
You use absolutely no CSS whatsoever.
The total number of bytes in images found on your web page is 59.2 KB.
The total number of bytes transferred while loading the page is 85.3 KB. This will take approximately 23.7 seconds to load over a 28.8 kbps network connection and 12 seconds over a 56K connection.
There are 37 hyperlinks in your document. There is 1 possible dead link, based on the server's reply.
There were 47 document structure problems found.
There were 83 unset image command tags that you should set to improve your overall web page performance.
An open tag was found without a matching close. This may be an extra tag you should remove, or there may be a missing close tag later in the page that you need to add.
You cannot even get to the following page:
http://66.121.213.146/labproducts/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=41&cat=Aquamax+Brand+Water+Systems
img6.gif is 31301 bytes.
It will take someone on a phone line 8.49 seconds to download that 1 image.
Your website returns 4 links in google for link:www.labwater.com
Your website returns 272 links in Google for link|www.labwater.com
and most of those come from the following IPs:
66.115.238.142
207.150.192.12
So in actual reality you have around 10 different websites that actually link to you in Google which is why you are not found for any main competitive keyword phrases in Google.

The whole point of that is before you start telling people how to optimize THEIR website for the Search Engines, optimize your own. Nobody wants information from someone that has no results themselves.

Quit being jealous of someone else's results and Join Now!


The other choice however, is to sit there and and be jealous and give information, which I am sure at this time, you believe to be true. Instead of running your mouth about something which you have not experienced and have no actual backing for; sit back, relax, read a lot more, try a few things, give it a year or two, and then offer advice. Until you have the experience of what works and what does not, your opinions are well taken however just that; opinions.

Good Luck in your endeavors. You have a long way to go before you can call yourself an SEO/SEM. I am sure you have read some articles and you think you know what you are talking about however get some more experience under your belt.



Wayne
Gift Baskets

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 12:07:32
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:12:54  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
Wayne,

You are looking at our old websites.

Chill buddy, you are the only one "Telling" people what to do, I am simply giving out info for those who want to read it.

We are not interested in people with slow modems. Our clients are gov't, universites and pharmaceuitical companies who all have high speed internet. Our load speeds are just fine. Maybe it is time for you do spring for DSL......

Funny eh.... our main keyword is water softener and with 100's of thousands of pages out there we manage to be #2 with no link exchange... just simply on the coding of my pages...

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?cp=1252&FORM=MSN6B&q=%22water%20softeners%22

I also should add, we have not even pointed a .com name at it yet... imagine... and this from a complete idiot who knows nothing about optimization....







Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 12:33:06
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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:46:41  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


quote:

We are not interested in people with slow modems. Our clients are gov't, universites and pharmaceuitical companies who all have high speed internet. Our load speeds are just fine. Maybe it is time for you do spring for DSL......



Again, showing your inexperience. You offer SEO opinions however do not think like an SEO. You think reality, not in mathematics or algorithms which is what the SE's are based on.

quote:

Funny eh.... our main keyword is water softener and with 100's of thousands of pages out there we manage to be #2 with no link exchange



Okay let's look at that keyword phrase. You have found what everyone is looking for. A highly searched term with low competition
water softner 1,226.0 /day - This is a good keyword phrase to go for. However with only competition of 289,000 I would hope that you can land that one without any link exchanges. It is not hard to land keyword phrases that are not competitve. This shows excellent research on your part but still does not display SEO skills.

That is a good keyword phrase to go after.... low competition means easier high rankings....

I am presuming that you are talking about lenntech.
In Google this website is found #2...
However when the competition gets a little hard as in Yahoo 793,000 that website is not found at all in the top 100
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=water+softener&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8


For everyone else
Update Time

We have been in the network for 19 days now.

Main Search Term:
#15 in Google
#26 in Yahoo

Secondary Search Term
#11 in Google
#55 in Yahoo

Backlinks
1810 in Yahoo
1390 in Google using www| not www:
6000 in MSN - Looks like we are maintaining at around 6000.


Our sales continue to increase as our ranking for our search terms do.

You can sign up here:
http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/ad-network/?s=2197



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 12:58:14
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  12:51:56  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
hmmm... exactly what are the keywords... lets see if they are actually something someone would type who was looking for "gift baskets".




Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 13:18:07
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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  13:00:36  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


Read my first post. The URL is right there... The difference is now, instead of #32 we are now #15 in Google

We are still maintining in Yahoo between #21-#30.

In fact let's take a look at your keyword phrase versus ours:

Water Softener -
Searches per day around 1200
Traffic per day = average 20 people per day from 1 search engine if you are at the top.
Google Competition - 289,000
Rating to land this keyword phrase: Easy
Found in top 100 in Yahoo: No
Number one website link total links in Google
link|home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm - 16

Gift Baskets -
Searches per day around 4000
Traffic per day = average 60 people per day from 1 search engine if you are at the top.
Google Competition - 7,490,000
Rating to land this keyword phrase: Extremely Difficult
Number one website total links in Google
link|www.giftsbasketsetc.com - 20,200

Compare apples to oranges. To land that keyword phrase you don't need any SEO experience.





Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 13:25:18
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  13:11:40  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
Is it reasonable to think someone will look through 15-30 links to buy a gift basket? It isn't a knock... but looking at it "realistically" I wouldnt think a #15 ranking would not bring you much of anything except maybe competitors or people wanting to sell you things taking the time to look that deep.

I think I like my top links instead.. I think i'll stick to meta tags and page coding...

60 hits? all that work for 60? gees we pull well over 1000 a day of highly tageted individual users.



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 13:36:06
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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  13:39:10  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


Back to your opinions again. Don't worry. I will keep you posted as I always have of how we are doing because of the new tool called the network.

You can join here:
http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/ad-network/?s=2197

Being nice about everything, I have landed every single keyword phrase I have ever gone after, extremely competitive ones, for this particular website except I was always having trouble with gift baskets. I landed number 1,2 or 3 or better for over 500 different keyword phrases in Google alone for this website. My allinanchor was 11 and still G would not move us past 200 in Google. With this new update, we dropped out completely. The rest of our keyword phrases were no problem. They stayed number one.

I already know that you are going to say something smartass to the comment above because you cannot see the forest through the trees however the point is.

Due to the network, just another SEO tool at your disposal, I have managed to bring the website from NIL to #15 and climbing within 18 days.... hard work? Not really, I make my text link and watch my rankings grow while I go out and have some fun instead of being at the computer 24/7 wondering why all of the SEO techniques you are telling people about are not working? Not really a lot of hard work involved in that. The traffic for that 1 keyowrd phrase is average 60 per day per search engine. Unlike your basic theories which landed you 1 non-competitive keyword phrase within 1 search engine, the network allows you to go through 90% of the search engines. So multiply 60 x (about 50) and that is what you will find for an average per day for traffic through that 1 keyword phrase however if you knew anything about SEO you would already have known that. Yet again showing your inexperience.

I would say that 3000 per day off of 1 keyword phrase is a lot better than 20 per day from 1 keyowrd phrase.

So, you can sit there and give your tips on what you think works and give keyword phrases that take absolutely no SEO experience to land and then wonder why you are not making any sales while our sales double and triple.

I would much rather have 75,000 people a month to the website and see our sales double and triple in less than a month than work my ass off for a year to see the sales go up by 1 or 2.

Good luck in your endeavors. If you were experienced you would take the advice, however you will not. This is understandable. Everyone has to do things their own way. You can take the hard road. Good Luck.

I will accept my quadruple increase in traffic and 15K in extra sales for the last 2 weeks. You keep working hard at those meta tags and that robot index tag.




Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 14:06:15
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  14:35:54  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
Update :

www.worldfamousgiftbaskets.net pages listed on MSN = 1
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=site%3Aworldfamousgiftbaskets.net&FORM=QBRE

http://66.121.213.146 (our beta site) pages listed on MSN = 3408
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=site%3A66.121.213.146&FORM=QBRE

Notice how it picked all the pages with differnt titles (starting on page 3)

You might want to reconsider that robot comment! Ha.



Edited by - apswater on February 19 2005 14:42:10
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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  14:57:31  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


That is great. You answered your own question. You other forum post asked why we were not found for gift baskets in MSN. This is because MSN has not updated yet. As soon as they update, I have no doubt we will be.

Thank You for pointing that out though.

Still doesn't change the fact that the network I have been giving people REAL results for works... and it works better than any other SEO tool out there to date.

As a matter fo fact, here are a few other websites that are in the network and it has worked for in MSN.

website counters
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=website+counters&FORM=QBRE
www.branica.com - #1
76 searches per day
competition - 284,532

travel insurance
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?FORM=MSNH&srch_type=0&q=travel+insurance
www.usaflightinsurance.com - #1
2,383.0 searches per day
competition - 43,612,259

Website Marketing
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=website+marketing&FORM=QBRE
www.onlinemarketingtoday.com - #1
www.onlinemarketingtoday.com/newsletter - #2
286.0 searches per day
competition - 19,701,220

I think the results speak for themselves but don't take my word for it. Try it yourself or go to our website: www.worldfamousgiftbaskets.net

Step 1- Look at some of the keyword phrases at the bottom of the page
Step 2- Take down the keyword phrase and the website address that it points to.
Step 3- Search MSN or any search engine for that keyword phrase.
Step 4- Look at the competition, at the top of the page it will say 1-49 of around ???,???,???.
Look at what spot that website is in.
Step 5- Go to www.digitalpoint.com/tools/suggestion and see how many people are searching for that keyword phrase.

If you don't like the keyword phrases that are shown, refresh our website page and use the next set.

The network works:

Our stats are just for 2 keyword phrases we are testing and returning the results to the people and letting them make their own decision whether they want to utilize this new tool that is available to them:

You can join here:
http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/ad-network/?s=2197




Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 15:29:43
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apswater
VP-ASP Super User

317 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  15:32:47  Show Profile  Visit apswater's Homepage
Wayne, correct me if I am wrong... these link you got here... you have a link at the bottom of someones entirely unrelated page and in exchange you supply a link at the bottom of your unrelated page, the search engine spider picks up the link and goes to your page and grabs your title and content and grades it for relevancy and places it accordingly.....

so, I ask, is each one of those links pointing to the same page on your website?

Also am I corect in thinking that you dont get much traffic from the links, instead you get traffic from the search engine that got you placed higher becasue there are all those links on other pages?

and... if those two are correct, didnt you turn your entire site into a link farm ?

I see where maybe that would have some merrit and since the links are hidden on the bottom of your page (why not make then white so the normal user cant see them?) that you dont lose many people becasuse who looks down there for links anyway....

Thanks for humoring me... I am just looking for the best way to market for me...



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ProductivePC
VP-ASP New User

USA
199 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  16:05:52  Show Profile  Visit ProductivePC's Homepage


quote:

Wayne, correct me if I am wrong... these link you got here... you have a link at the bottom of someones entirely unrelated page and in exchange you supply a link at the bottom of your unrelated page, the search engine spider picks up the link and goes to your page and grabs your title and content and grades it for relevancy and places it accordingly.....



Yes and no. The search engines do not pay as much attention to your title tag as they once did. They still pay attention to it however not as much. In fact, the reason your meta tags are not looked at as much because the blackhat SEO's exploited the faults within them years ago. This lead to the search engines showing the same website 75-80 times in a row.

What the search engines look at is this:
website A links to website B.
This means that website B must be important.

Now, relevancy comes into play with this but only by adding more weight onto the link that is pointing to you and the anchor text that is located within those links. The majority still comes back to how many total websites are out there linking to you and the EXACT anchor text that is located within that link.

quote:

so, I ask, is each one of those links pointing to the same page on your website?



You will have to better phrase the question. What I think you mean is are those links there all of the time and do they point to the same spot. No the links are there just as if I was selling advertising space on my website. They rotate as in a banner, text rotation program.

quote:

Also am I corect in thinking that you dont get much traffic from the links, instead you get traffic from the search engine that got you placed higher becasue there are all those links on other pages?



The traffic does not come from the webpages themselves however we do see traffic from there. The traffic comes from being up in the search engines. Many SEO techniques only work for 1 search engine. This technique works for 90% of them. So when your ranking goes up in one, it is also going up in the others as well. So you are not just getting traffic from Google, you are getting it from 1000 - 5000 different search engines out there.

quote:

and... if those two are correct, didnt you turn your entire site into a link farm ?



This is extremely incorrect. Look up the definition of a link farm. We are essentially selling advertising on our website without any monetary compensation. It does not matter whom we sell to. We can sell to whomever we want. The greatest thing is the websites that we are selling to are all looked at and approved by individuals. You cannot just put up any advertisement or link exchange. You cannot also just put up any website. There are no adult websites, no pharmaceuticals, no gambling websites allowed within the network. We have turned our website a marketing website. All we are doing is selling advertising. In exchange for us agreeing to post links on our website, these other websites agree to post our link on their website. A simple link exchange with a banner rotation concept. Perfectly legal and acceptable amongst the search engines.

quote:

I see where maybe that would have some merrit and since the links are hidden on the bottom of your page (why not make then white so the normal user cant see them?) that you dont lose many people becasuse who looks down there for links anyway....



Hidden links or links the same color as your background would throw up a red flag within the search engines. I have no problem advertising these websites on any of our website pages. The same concept for deep link exchanging. Where you place a websites links on your pages instead of stored away on some links page that nobody will ever find. Hidden links are not allowed in the network. Shawn, the owner of Digital Point and the creator of the network has done nothing for years except help people and build tools that advanced SEO's can utilize to better their search engine results.
He provides these tools at no charge. He could charge an arm and leg for these tools.
quote:

Thanks for humoring me... I am just looking for the best way to market for me...



Your welcome. I have no problem answering any of yours or anyones else's questions about SEO or the network. Everyone started somewhere and I too was out there wondering what works and what doesn't. After tremendous amounts of experience and trial & error, I found out what works and what doesn't.



Wayne
www.WorldFamousGiftBaskets.net

Edited by - ProductivePC on February 19 2005 16:17:13
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jackbox
VP-ASP New User

United Kingdom
72 Posts

Posted - February 19 2005 :  16:15:12  Show Profile  Visit jackbox's Homepage
Advice from an old SEO folks.

Link farms are fine until they're rumbled and then they all go down like a row of dominoes - I've read the book and have the t-shirt. The links that REALLY count are ones that are 'on topic'. I'm saying this because in my 'novice' days I signed up to a similar scheme. Worked fine until the link exchange was sussed and even 7 years later I'm STILL finding remnants of these blasted pages.

Relevant content is as important as it always has been. The best way to make an impact on traffic and consequently sales is to make full use of product descriptions and make sure your home page is lean on code and high on relevant content. Its a forumula that complies with search engine guidelines and has kept several hundred of my sites in top positions consistently.

Pebbledash syle links can create huge problems if one site breaks say, Google guidelines. I've seen a whole batch of sites vanish overnight for linking into a bad neighbourhood and it can burn out a domain name just like that. If you're linking clients sites in this way you can suddenly find you're bombarded by phone calls from irate clients wondering why they've vanished - I've seen that happen a LOT. Nope, relevant content is ALWAYS the most important thing and ANY links should be carefully placed. Using link farms is lazy SEO, uncontrollable and in the longer term unsustainable.



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